Emerging Youth Group

εις επαινον δοξης αυτου: Emerging Youth Group

For my info and for your reading and thinking.

Whenever big-name types come to speak in chapel at DTS, at least one of the different groups on campus will try to get them to speak after chapel at a "Brown Bag" lunch. Anyone who wants to attend brings their own lunch in a brown bag (hence the name) and gets to listen to the speaker and ply him with questions about the nature of the Nephilim in Genesis 6 (and other such questions).

Last week Dawson McAllister was on campus, recording a podcast and speaking in chapel.

He spoke on the importance of "trench warfare" in youth ministry. He gave us an overview of his ministry and played a number of clips from the radio show.

Anyway, I was of course quite jazzed about his message, since my area of ministry is youth.

So, imagine how excited I was when I discovered that Pipeline, the youth ministry group on campus, was hosting a Brown Bag with the Sr. High youth pastor (Charley Hellmuth) at Irving Bible Church, who "is leading a great example of an EC youth ministry." The author of the annoucement doesn't specify if by EC he means Emerging Church or the Emergent Conversation. Either way, it should be a good talk, especially if we "dialogue" as the ad says we're supposed to.

So, this brings me to my question: For all y'all out there who know more about the Emerging/Emergent Church (I know, they're two different things, but they're lumped together in this topic), what's the impact the EC has/should have on youth ministry? Can it be ignored, or must it be addressed in youth ministry?

Sound off!

Jesus walks into a bar …

Jesus walks into a bar …

More younger people are delving into Christianity. But they are unlikely to worship at the altar, writes Barney Zwartz.

'JESUS asked his mates to stay with him, but they got pissed and fell asleep, the bloody bastards." As an account of the disciples' failure in the Garden of Gethsemane the night before Jesus was cruci fied, it may lack the poetry and majesty of the King James Bible. But the 22 street people in a dingy city basement get the point powerfully.

This rather loose Bible reading from Matthew 26 by a young church worker, Virginia Moebus, is part of a weekly gathering in Credo Cafe, run by Urban Seed in Melbourne, a Baptist Church outreach to homeless and drug-addicted city dwellers.

Most of these people would never set foot in church, but they come faithfully to the gathering, followed by the free lunch served every day. "People see it like their living room, especially if they are on the street. It's somewhere they can come and sit down and be warm and safe," Moebus says.

But it's more than that.

It is solace, spiritual comfort, connection. They sing confidently during the service, accompanied by an extremely competent bongo drummer, and talk freely about the Bible reading.

They are part of an extraordinarily diverse and fast-growing Christian movement catering to the multitudes who reject the institutional church but want to follow its founder, Jesus Christ.

They meet in cafes, clubs, homes, halls, parks or galleries. Rather than "church", they may meet as families, students, businesspeople or surfies. They may be affiliated to mainstream churches or they may be entirely independent. Most are committed and young.

Read more by clicking the link above. This was sent to me by a missionary in Australia, Russ Matthews. What do you think about this?

Above All Earthly Powers: The Supremacy of Christ in a Postmodern World

Videos :: Desiring God

These interviews with some of the speakers at the 2006 Desiring God National Conference (Sept. 29-Oct. 1, 2006) were used in promotion of the event. I want you to especially watch the ones by John Piper and Mark Driscoll. Piper gives an overview of what this conference was to be about. Driscoll gives an emerging church point of view that sounds more thought out than the book that I am currently reading, Emerging Churches. He has thought about this and sees the Emerging Church "movement" for what it is, unlike the book which sees all emerging churches as on the same playing field. Let me know your thoughts.

Here are some notable interviews:

John Piper

• What is the nature of postmodernism?
• What are some effects of postmodernism?

Mark Driscoll

• Seeker vs. Missional- Part 1 and 2
• Biblical Principals and Cultural Methods
  
• Style in Ministry
• The Importance of Theology
• The Need of Cultural Immersion
• Relating to Sinners
  

Tim Keller

• Is the Bible Culturally Conditioned?

David Wells

• Postmodernity Defined
• Religious Pluralism in America
• Emergent vs. Traditional and Seeker
  

Discussion from Contemporary Theological Issues Class at Baptist Bible Seminary- My Reply to Other Students Reply

Be sure to read the previous post before this one.

In short, I reject the reactionary position that the church is to be summarized solely as missional. Mission is an essential part of the church, but it is only one of many essential parts. God is love, but it is wrong to say that love is God. Similarly, the Church is to be missional, but mission is not to be the Church.

I want to add some thoughts and through out some questions.

I am still trying to wrap my mind around all of this and have made some harsh comments in other discussions. But if the church doesn't take the role as the primary means of "missions", who does? Matthew 28:18-20 says,

18And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."

The main verb here is "make disciples." We are to go make disciples, baptize those disciples, and teach those disciples. Now I don't know what order the last two (baptize and teach) come but we have to go to those people in order to let them know about Jesus. Evangelism only happens when we go to them. Sure we can invite them to our church and our pastor can evangelize to them but I pray we have already been evangelizing before they get to church. The gospel has to connect to every aspect of our ministry. Everything we are about has to be evangelizing. Why do we do what we do? Because of the gospel. Why do we believe what we believe? Because of the gospel.

What are we training our people for? Ephesians 4:12 "...for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ." How does the body of Christ build? By first evangelizing. The building has to grow in order to remain healthy. Just like us. We have to keep growing. We can not grow if parts start to die. And I think alot of churches are doing this today. We are so inward focused. You made the comment, "but I would suggest that the Scriptures indicate that our first and primary focus is to be on loving and meeting the needs of other believers" but I ask...How do those believers become believers? Can we really say that the primary focus is to be on loving and meeting the needs of other believers if we aren't creating other believers. Eventually those believers are going to die and then what? So what becomes the primary focus then?

I want to continue challenging this with a thought on being too "Jewish" in our thoughts. We can't discredit the unsaved public because we were apart of them at one point. The comment we made "I am unable to think of a text that exhorts the church specifically to meet the needs of non-Christian widows in the surrounding community." Let me help you with a couple. Mark 7:24-30 talks of a Canaanite woman that begged Jesus to heal her demon possessed daughter. Jesus and His disciples both strugged her off but she persisted to the point of going into the house and getting on her stomach, prostrate before Jesus' feet under the table in which He was eating. He became amazed by her faith and healed her daughter. But here is the point. Why did He help her? She was a gentile "dog" (grk. "puppy"). Because she recognized Him as Lord. She wasn't apart of Israel which He says in Matthew 15:24 that He was here only for the lost sheep of Israel. Not Canaan. Jesus extends a "mini-blessing" to this woman.

The second comes in the garden of Gethsemane. In John 17 Jesus prays threefold; He prays for Himself, His disciples, His disciples disciples. In verses 17 and 18 it says; John 17:17-18 17 "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 "As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. Jesus here again places an importance on going into the world. He even says that He sends them (the apostles). Then in verses 20-26 Jesus prays for me and you and everybody that is going to "believe in Me throgh their [the apostles] message." He prays that the world may know! Know what? Jesus as the Son of God the Father!

Now my goal in this long post is not to sound like I am on board with the Emerging Church in anyway but draw attention to the fact that they may be right in this area. The book of Ephesians stresses the point on the building of the Church but the goal isn't to just fill eachother full of knowledge. It is to prepare everyone for the "work of the ministry." In Ephesians 3 Paul talks about how he proclaimed "the mystery." What is this mystery"? It's the gospel! So back to my earlier point. The gospel has to be connected to every aspect of our ministry and our Christian lives. I believe that we have created these really good clubs that talk about, learn about, and sing about Jesus. But we really can't call ourselves a New Testament church, one that is concerned for Christless souls and does something about it, if we really aren't making the gospel THE priority.

Discussion from Contemporary Theological Issues Class at Baptist Bible Seminary- Other Student Reply

Be sure to read the previous post before reading this one.

“Our focus needs to change from just ministering to those within our midst to those that are outside our doors.”

I think I understand the idea behind this sentence, and I agree that Christians need to express genuine love and compassion for those outside of the church. At the same time, this sentence reflects a line of thought that emerged within our reading, that the primary focus of the church should somehow be on those outside of the church, essentially expanding the borders of the church, emphasizing an outward orientation versus an inward orientation.

The point at which I take exception with such a stand is at the point where the word ‘primary’ is inserted. Certainly, there is no doubt that we are to love our neighbors and our enemies, that we are to do acts of goodness and kindness to all men in all places, but I would suggest that the Scriptures indicate that our first and primary focus is to be on loving and meeting the needs of other believers.

As a quick example, consider the case of the widows. Throughout the New Testament, Christians are encouraged to meet the needs of the widows within their community, but I am unable to think of a text that exhorts the church specifically to meet the needs of non-Christian widows in the surrounding community.

As one other example, consider this statement from Earl Radmacher. (I have to paraphrase it, as he made the comment during a class session I attended, and I do not have the comment in writing.) He was speaking concerning prayer for salvation of the nonbeliever. He suggested that the biblical pattern calls for believers to pray for one another and to proclaim the Gospel to nonbelievers, and asserted that there was no

scripture that exhorted believers to pray for the salvation of nonbelievers. (Dr. Radmacher did leave one possible exception, the verse in which Paul says that his prayer, desire or wish is for the salvation of the Jews.) Whether we think he is overstating his case or not, we must agree that there is a difference in New Testament teaching between

how we are to act toward those within the church and those outside the Church. And, yes, this demands that we observe a boundary or separation between church members and non-church members.

In short, I reject the reactionary position that the church is to be summarized solely as missional. Mission is an essential part of the church, but it is only one of many essential parts. God is love, but it is wrong to say that love is God. Similarly, the Church is to be missional, but mission is not to be the Church.

Discussion from Contemporary Theological Issues Class at Baptist Bible Seminary

A student in my class began a discussion on "Missional Ministry" with this post. I am going to post a reply to this post and then my reply to that reply.

For many churches when we talk about missions or missions it is a program of the church. We have a missions committee and we have missions conferences. The emphasis is not on the here, but the far away.

Everything that we do as a church and as individuals should have a component of incorporating non churched people into the family of God. The emerging missional movement challenges the traditional approach.

"Rather than measuring the church by its attendance, we will measure it by its deployment," McLaren said.

Our focus needs to change from just ministering to those within our midst to those that are outside our doors. Many of these churches are holding so strongly to an old model that they are dying before our eyes. They are not making disciples and they are not reaching out. The real challenge is not change but will be survival. However, for most they are not aware of the situation. They have elevated the model to doctrine and thus are going down on a ship that needs not to be salvaged.

What is a Missional Community

What is a Missional Community

Here is some more reading for you! More stuff from my class that I am trying to get my mind around. Click on the link above

A missional community is a group of Jesus’ apprentices who so trust his brilliance and mastery of life, that they learn from him how to be like him for the sake of the world. Through this apprentice/master relationship, the community journeys together to become the fullness of God and thereby become a finite earthly expression of the infinite Tri-Community just as Jesus was in his earthly life. A missional community is about becoming by grace what Christ is by nature. As the community experiences this, wherever the community members live their daily lives, they are learning how to easily, naturally, and routinely embody, demonstrate and announce God’s life and reign for the sake of the world around them.

The Emerging Church, by D. A. Carson

The Emerging Church, by D. A. Carson

I thought this article would be interesting to go ahead and post.

Also I am in the middle of a discussion in my Contemporary Theological Issues class through Baptist Bible Seminary in Clarks Summit, PA. I may post some of the discussions later.